Descent : Underground. Did anyone here knew about this?

Drakona · Post by **Drakona** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:00 pm

Vander wrote:
Lothar wrote:On the other hand, keyboards are of much higher quality than they were before. Gaming KB+gaming mouse is a very competitive setup. There's essentially an even split between joystick players and kb+mouse players among the top active pilots. (Come play with us: http://descentchampions.org/new_player.php )
Do you guys only do 1on1? (is it even possible to do more than 1on1 in D1/D2 without LAN/Kali?) I always enjoyed bigger games more than 1on1.

There are open anarchy D1 games pretty much every evening, often with 8 players. The new D1x supports it right out of the box. You don't need a Kali-like program. People occasionally play D2 as well.

There is a ladder, if you want it. There are Rangers games if you like your anarchy organized. There are pickup games if you don't. It's a good idea to meet up with other players on Facebook or Mumble if you want to organize anything complicated (like a Flag game or something). The tracker will tell you what games are going at the moment, and the Twitter Feed will tell you when one's starting up.

If you want to get back into it, now's a good time; there are a number of people who started playing again because of DU, and they haven't shaken the rust off yet.

Drakona · Post by **Drakona** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:19 pm

Krom wrote:When people new to Descent jump into multiplayer and encounter one of the old school pilots, they aren't going to think "Wow, how do I learn to do that?" what they will think will be more along the lines of "This is ****, the game is dumb and these jerks are cheating!".

Modern amenities! They're building matchmaking to avert precisely that scenario.

Which, I mean . . . woulda been nice to have on Kali, to be honest.

I've been impressed with their ideas for making the game accessible to new pilots and to casual players while remaining true to itself, though. Between matchmaking and a more laid-back teams mode as an intro to the game, it shouldn't be as harsh an experience as it was for us. I dunno if they'll succeed, but it seems like a pretty good shot.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:53 pm

sort of like how quake live does it's matchmaking? nice.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:24 pm

Vander wrote:Do you guys only do 1on1? (is it even possible to do more than 1on1 in D1/D2 without LAN/Kali?) I always enjoyed bigger games more than 1on1.

The ladder is 1v1, but Rangers does lots of bigger games, and http://descentchampions.org/new_player.php will tell you how to get connected to both groups. (http://retro-tracker.game-server.cc/archive/ will show you most of the games played recently, so you can see what's "in" right now.)

Modern Descent has its own built-in tracker. You don't need Kali any more. Just find someone to play, host the game (with UDP port 42424 open on your router), and it'll show up on http://dxxtracker.reenigne.net/ (or http://retro-tracker.game-server.cc/ if you take a few moments to edit d1x.ini as described at the bottom of the page.)

OK, yeah, so it's still open source software with all the "you need to open ports on your router and edit the ini file" kind of stuff that comes with it, but it's getting better.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:29 am

So you guys really play D1 more than D2? Why is that?

New episode of Wingman's Hangout out yesterday! March 26th LiveStream.
[youtube]dZ5siboRBaY[/youtube]

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:25 am

Sergeant Thorne wrote:So you guys really play D1 more than D2? Why is that?

D1 is much better balanced than D2. No overpowered or underpowered weapons. The common secondaries don't have ridiculous effects (flash missiles make some peoples' screens a little washed out, and others solid white; it's not consistent.) All ships have the same movement capabilities all the time (no "guard the burner"). The net result of all of this is a broader range of tactics and a higher emphasis on adjusting to opponents, rather than just overpowering them because you're good at gauss.

These factors are more relevant to 1v1 than anarchy. D1 makes up 95% of ladder matches. In Rangers, it's more like 65% D1; there's still a fair bit of D2 keg, Wolf's Den 3, and D-Day '97 anarchy.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:13 pm

And it depends on the people. Before the DCL was a thing, it was 95% D2 in the Rangers.

"Fixed" D2 is a comparable game to D1 with more focus on piloting maneuvers - the weapons are overall less effective - but it has been a long road trying to popularize it.

The less Gauss, the better the game is.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:21 pm

The more I learn about this game, the more I do not like it. Perhaps it was when that earlier is a good idea ... Morons are unable to understand what not need to steal the ideas of fans, and then expose them as their own, and it was not necessary to copy graphics SOLC. And even when they stole the idea and style of the graphics, they could not make a good game

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:13 pm

Well, I've not seen from part of Descendent Studios that 'stealing' attitude.
Every thing we the fans has aported to the D:U project (ideas, concepts, etc) has been credited on the forums, and there are even MVP medals awarded to said fans and even featured posts on there.

I haven't seen at any point that Descendent Studios is claiming our ideas as their own.

I see too much negativity for no real reason against Descendent Studios team.
Even the SolC developers themselves has much less animosity towards the team than some of the SolC fans.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:17 pm

Easy there pumo. Keep in mind his english is still a little rough and he might say something that he thinks is the opposite.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:43 pm

Ferno wrote:Easy there pumo. Keep in mind his english is still a little rough and he might say something that he thinks is the opposite.

This. ;D

Drakona · Post by **Drakona** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:54 pm

On the off chance that it might tempt some of you out of retirement, I'll just mention that I'm looking at an 8-player KFF game on the tracker right now. The pilots are Jackeh, Yagar, Roncli, Lotharbot, DJCJR, Jediluke, Spud, and Kiln.

That is all. You may return to your regularly scheduled DU discussion.

Speaking of which! The other game on the tracker is someone involved in building DU checking out a D1 level and generally getting back into the game. These guys are the real deal.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:56 pm

Hell…if the oldschoolers had just told the newbies about 3dfx Voodoo when they joined Kali…most of the cheat accusations could have been avoided.

Instead all the newbies ever heard was something like…”shut up you whiner…it’s called trichording”.

When I came to Kali I already had months of experience playing modem games, had long since learned to trichord, and was used to playing at about 15 fps, most everyone looked like they were cheating, and I let many people know what I thought, it wasn’t till about 6 month into playing on Kali somebody finally told me about Voodoo, I bought the card installed it…retimed my ship at full burn across Keg Party’s main room…and low and behold…the time dropped dramatically.

If I had been told about Voodoo right from the beginning my entire Descent experience would have been different.

So yea, I think it’s great if attempts are going to be made to avoid that kind of thing.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:19 pm

This is contained within the live-stream, but I'm posting this version again because it's SO COOL!

[youtube]xhhqGeZLTwA[/youtube]

BTW, new contest running as of today over on the DS forums to select a candidate for a new gameplay mode in D:U! If you're not already over there, get over there!

Myself I'd like to see something in the style of Counter-Strike with a Descent'y twist (actually encountered the play-mode in the game "Chaser" by JoWood), where one team works to defend and the other team must disarm (a rocket launch, in Chaser), with a count-down.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:23 pm

Spidey wrote:Hell…if the oldschoolers had just told the newbies about 3dfx Voodoo when they joined Kali…most of the cheat accusations could have been avoided.

Instead all the newbies ever heard was something like…”shut up you whiner…it’s called trichording”.

When I came to Kali I already had months of experience playing modem games, had long since learned to trichord, and was used to playing at about 15 fps, most everyone looked like they were cheating, and I let many people know what I thought, it wasn’t till about 6 month into playing on Kali somebody finally told me about Voodoo, I bought the card installed it…retimed my ship at full burn across Keg Party’s main room…and low and behold…the time dropped dramatically.

If I had been told about Voodoo right from the beginning my entire Descent experience would have been different.

So yea, I think it’s great if attempts are going to be made to avoid that kind of thing.

you turned out alright.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:59 am

Ferno wrote:Easy there pumo. Keep in mind his english is still a little rough and he might say something that he thinks is the opposite.

I really believe that today the game does not look quite attractive. Gun blasts terribly poorly made. About ships, I do not even want to talk about.
And of course you're right, sometimes I make mistakes in the translation. In order to properly write at least one sentence in English, I need to spend a lot of time and use several online translators. Sorry, and thanks for your understanding.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:41 am

I will admit; I do find the blasts from the guns quite distracting and they tend to wash everything else out.

That also goes for the lava, crystals and everything else 'glowey'. it looks overdone.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:57 am

You're also not seeing it with your preferred graphic settings, gamma settings, etc. You're seeing it as it's been tweaked for someone else's monitor, but displayed on yours.

And remember, this game is in kickstart phase. It enters pre-alpha testing in August. It doesn't look good yet; it's basically concept art. It won't really take shape for quite a while.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:17 pm

One thing I've kinda noticed about the models and the art in general is the ships have really thin wings and extremities. The Torch KS for instance looks like an extremely anorexic Pyro (seriously, eat something or you are going to die!) and that is even comparing it to the D3 pyro which was already thinned down. The wings on most of the ships are either paper thin, or have tiny connection points to the main body which make them look like they will break off if you flew the thing in a stiff breeze. Where as the Pyro GX presented in the ingame art in D1 and D2 is built like a tank, even the wings are thick and are mounted solidly to the frame.

Of course not everything in D1 is built like a tank, but the majority of the robots have pretty solid bodies and fairly thick extremities. Probably the majority of that is because they didn't have the polygon budget for much more. The hulks are probably the best example, since they are basically flying bricks with bodybuilder arms that spew death at you on higher skill levels.

Also that round ship that is all over the kickstarter page, the one in the drone bay concept and with all the customizations...If I say: "It is a penguin!", can you unsee it?

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:40 pm

Lothar wrote:You're also not seeing it with your preferred graphic settings, gamma settings, etc. You're seeing it as it's been tweaked for someone else's monitor, but displayed on yours.

That would be true if it was a cam rip.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:45 pm

Krom wrote:One thing I've kinda noticed about the models and the art in general is the ships have really thin wings and extremities. The Torch KS for instance looks like an extremely anorexic Pyro (seriously, eat something or you are going to die!) and that is even comparing it to the D3 pyro which was already thinned down. The wings on most of the ships are either paper thin, or have tiny connection points to the main body which make them look like they will break off if you flew the thing in a stiff breeze. Where as the Pyro GX presented in the ingame art in D1 and D2 is built like a tank, even the wings are thick and are mounted solidly to the frame.

Of course not everything in D1 is built like a tank, but the majority of the robots have pretty solid bodies and fairly thick extremities. Probably the majority of that is because they didn't have the polygon budget for much more. The hulks are probably the best example, since they are basically flying bricks with bodybuilder arms that spew death at you on higher skill levels.

Also that round ship that is all over the kickstarter page, the one in the drone bay concept and with all the customizations...If I say: "It is a penguin!", can you unsee it?

I told them a while back that their ships looked too weakly designed to survive close-quarters maneuvering. I felt like they kind of blew me off at the time, but I'm hoping they took it to heart. I noticed that afterward Wingman said on a video that they may not be keeping all aspect of the Torch KS, such as the antena sticking off of the front, because they would be the kind of things that would likely break in the mines. To me that was a good sign. They may not have liked to hear it right off, but maybe they can't argue with the logic. It's kind of a hard argument to dispute--these ships need to be tough.

We really need more people representing Descent over there. I feel like at least half of the community is missing. Maybe we need to do a little campaign of our own to get the word out to familiar Descentrs who are in retirement... Unless something catastrophic happens with the KS, the DS somehow decides to leave it be, this is Descent for the first quarter of the 21st century, folks! We as a community should be more informed and more involved than the other gamers coming to Descent: Underground. This is OUR game, even if it may not be readily recognizable as a classic Descent title! Not because we own it, but because we love it more (or we wouldn't be here)!

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:46 pm

Great success in any case will not be. Let's not forget that most people have problems with vestibular apparatus even when they just see the demo Descent. Despite the fact that all of us here feel like a fish in water in the game and enjoy it.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:42 am

So none of the original Descent games can be played on modern computers?

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:19 am

Of course, they can be played easily with DXX-Rebirth and D2X-XL (or even DosBox for real purists).

Hunter · Post by **Hunter** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:23 pm

We really need more people representing Descent over there. I feel like at least half of the community is missing. Maybe we need to do a little campaign of our own to get the word out to familiar Descentrs who are in retirement... Unless something catastrophic happens with the KS, the DS somehow decides to leave it be, this is Descent for the first quarter of the 21st century, folks! We as a community should be more informed and more involved than the other gamers coming to Descent: Underground. This is OUR game, even if it may not be readily recognizable as a classic Descent title! Not because we own it, but because we love it more (or we wouldn't be here)!

And many of the folks over at PlanetDescent don't seem to want to support the project at all. No news item on their front page about this KS - A clear snubbing of the project if you ask me.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:11 pm

There were so many red flags in the KS that I would easily have done the same. I'm a perfectionist. I can't understate how many hurdles I had to clear to like D:U. But to me a "Descent" in 2016 is just too big a deal to run with knee-jerk reactions to less than inspiring or less than reminiscent pre-production content.

From the perspective of the Descent community, Descendent Studios pretty much couldn't have done worse from an advertising point of view, despite the obvious quality of the project. They screwed the pooch, and it's because they don't know the game or the community inside and out like we do. Nevertheless any Descent player HAS to recognize how big of a deal Descent: Underground is!

Every failed effort to bring Descent back puts another nail in the coffin for the community, IMO, and the bigger the effort the bigger the nail (think of the fallout from D4). If D:U fails, we are worse off. It's inconceivable that a bigger production could follow on the heals of D:U if it fails. D:U has already been a good thing for everything Descent in the existing community! Old players coming out of the woodwork, more D1 and D2 (and D3?) being played, more attention for projects like SolC and GeoCore. This is the gravy-train, and I'm afraid people are missing it for lack of a little faith and a little imagination.

Ask yourself, what's the worst that could happen with the release of Descent: Underground? I mean let's say Descent players decide that it sucks! I'd say we'd have a pretty awesome platform to tweak until it's Descent, and an even larger community to draw from in support of it! Even if it doesn't suck I see D1, D2, D3 mods popping up eventually just for fun! Come on, folks! A chance to fly some new mines and bring all of our favorite D1, D2, and D3 maps to a new game!!

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:12 pm

@PJB
Indeed, you're totally right. In fact, there's some weird and contradictory attitude there at PD. This is what I had to say on their Picture of the Day topic:

Pumo @PD wrote:I find it cool to see SolC references, but why there's not ANY reference about D:Underground on the front page of Planet Descent?

Ironically, the POTD talks about the 'Future of Descent' and the Soupe of the Jour is 'The Descent Series should rise again!', but there's not any mention about the new official Descent game, at all. :-\

The title is the 'Future of Descent', but it shows an image of a game that (unfortunately) it won't be Descent as the developers can't use any asset nor name or direct reference about it and will have its own universe, completely unrelated to Descent.
So that's NOT the future of Descent.

It seems as if Planet Descent is not really interested on a new Descent game, even with those Soupe and POTD.
That's a bit contradictory and sad, and doesn't reflects any real interest on seeing the real series rise again.

I find (once more, ironically) more interest and nice discussions about D:U at the SolC forums than here.
Even the developers of SolC (on their forums) are congratulating D:U developers for getting Green Light on steam: http://forum.preparefordescent.com/view ... 110#p10054

So the real Future of Descent (whether we like it or not) is this:

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:46 pm

Possibly because Planet Descent is dead?

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:20 am

Sirius wrote:Possibly because Planet Descent is dead?

.uh.. yeah.. like for 2 years now? no wait.. 5 or 6. Gamespy has been gone 2 years now.

Hunter · Post by **Hunter** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:27 am

Yeah but the refugees from PlanetDescent now reside at PlanetDescent.net - run by WillyP.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:43 am

They talk about it on their forums here: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?topic=1390.0

*shrug*

Maybe they favor SC? Go ask.

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:57 am

Well, it doesnt really matter what they think at PD.
And it doesnt matter what the collective "we" think here at the DescentBB either.
Here's the core issue:

Descent as an IP has a new life.
That's taking the issue to the core.

Will Descent: Underground be as good as D1? or D3?
Maybe. Who can say? Games have evolved a LOT since the 90's.
It's impossible to say until we see a finished product (and D:U isnt even in alpha yet--they need our dollars to make that happen)..
We have a developer that appears to REALLY want to re-create descent for the modern era, for newer pilots,
(which makes sense economically: provide an addictive new product to a generation that hasnt experienced this addiction = money in the bank),
and they have the experience to make it happen.

Will D:U be better?
Wow. Tough question, but only time will tell.

Is $30 worth seeing if Descent can be brought into the 2015 gaming era, without Kali, or some other program to make it accessible by the masses?
Absolutely.
That's the central issue to consider.

I've read/watched/listened to A LOT of information regarding this project.
I'm satisfied that this is a worthy endeavor.

I want to fly a Descent sequel, but have had my hopes destroyed over and over again.
From all that I've read and seen and discussed, D:U is the real deal, and our best opportunity yet.

Worth $30 for the popcorn and a front row seat? Absolutely.
Seriously. It's $30. Let's see what they can do!

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:58 pm

The latest design update is pretty interesting:

[youtube]5q_Jtl5q3_s[/youtube]

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:38 pm

Drakona and I will be spending a week in Austin working with the D:U team to make sure this game is awesome.

Pumo · Post by **Pumo** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:43 pm

That's pretty cool! I'm pretty sure that with your assistance we will be getting an excellent game!
Let's just hope it reaches its KS goal. *worried*

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:37 am

It'll be funded.
It's a good premise, it's interesting, it has classic (original descent) mode, and it's backed by an excellent team.
No need to worry.

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:43 pm

Here's a video posted today of the first multiplayer match.
Keep in mind this is pre-pre-pre-alpha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... jCoP9HJkNg

--EDIT--I would have put the url in as a youtube window, but there's no option to do that....
what's the code/symbol to do that?

[youtube] [/youtube]

or something like that?

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:48 pm

Here's a new update with some Oculus Rift footage.
Very cool!
Turn the Youtube settings up to 1080p for best view.
How cool is it that this is pre-alpha and the devs are flying around with the OR and in multiplayer?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=769FJzQ ... e=youtu.be

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:40 am

Krom, et al... you guys know we're lookin' like a bunch of lone whiners on the D:U forums while y'all hang back here aloof from D:U due to its present lack of Descenty-ness.

As responsible developers these folks can't really countenance dissent if it's coming from a minority... These are the front-lines, folks (assuming the game gets funded)!

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:11 pm

A new descent, based on arguably the most popular Descent ship flight dynamics (I personally preferred D3s faster pace, but that's just me), for $30?
Time to jump into the fray and back this KickStarter!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/de ... nderground

It will be good to finally have a game that unites the splintered Descent community.