Descent Piloting tactics and techniques

deathbeam · Post by **deathbeam** » Sat May 08, 2010 9:37 am

I've been in the mines for awhile and am looking for a little advice on piloting tactics and techniques.
I think I have tri-chording down, but it doesn't come naturally yet.

It would be great if someone could explain fusion \"mothing\" and \"rattling\".
I'm sure there's a plane of techniques/tactics that I don't have figured out yet or even heard of, but I'm open to Any piloting advice.

Plus I didn't see any threads where the most popular techniques are explained, and I thought we could use one.

Zero! · Post by **Zero!** » Sat May 08, 2010 1:16 pm

mothing is just running into the fusion shot, think of it as a moth attracted to a flame

not sure what u mean by rattling

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Sat May 08, 2010 2:06 pm

mothing = flying into the purple light

ratting = tunnel rat

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sat May 08, 2010 2:14 pm

Ratting: Chucking Fusion down long narrow hallways and avoiding open spaces.
Mothing: Eating a face full of Fusion that has been chucked over any long distance.

deathbeam · Post by **deathbeam** » Sat May 08, 2010 6:47 pm

Got it, so ratting is a \"whimp like thing\", and mothing is a \"stupid thing\".
Thank you, that actually clears up a lot of confusion for me.

(Really though, it does)

As for tri-chording, I just want to make sure I have it right.
It means to move in all three axis', Like strafing left, accelerating, and strafing up at the same time right?
And is it any easier with a joytstick? I only have keyboard/mouse.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Sat May 08, 2010 7:36 pm

You got the tri-chording thing right. Difficulty is a little hard to gauge - in my experience it was actually easier on kb/mouse because it was tricky to precisely control the direction with a hat switch.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sat May 08, 2010 7:50 pm

Mothing isn't really stupid (though it sure feels like it), it's just falling prey to a well thought-out fusion blast by flying too instinctively. It takes a little work to stop and think, \"ok, this fusion blast is going *here*, so, forget how I usually fly, I am not going to be there!\"

Fact: pilots who whine about fusion kills (particularly triple-fusion) being too easy are never the ones making the kills. Draw what conclusions you will.

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Sat May 08, 2010 8:12 pm

side note - mothing on a LAN is truely a moment since accurate weapon collision is on.

when it happens it's obvious and funny as hell.. by both parties almost as funny as an F8 remark on a LAN

these online only so called 'elite' haven't a clue and crumble at a LAN

d0ggY · Post by **d0ggY** » Mon May 10, 2010 12:02 pm

deathbeam wrote:Got it, so ratting is a "whimp like thing", and mothing is a "stupid thing".

Some of the best Descenters back in the pre-2000 age were solely rats and probably, imo, the hardest to beat. It is hardly wimpy and is actually quite difficult to master. Many self-proclaimed rats were horrendously predictable and often did the same pattern of routines in specific tunnels. The good rats (DrDon, otaY, Keyser, Rainbird, Wyvern, etc) were extremely unpredictable and, above all else, very very very patient. I had a match to 20 with Rainbird in Pulling Teeth that lasted at least 3 hours and matches with DrDon could take longer than that.

It's one of the few skills that, if mastered, can exponentially raise your win/loss ratio since most pilots are dogfighters and not all that mentally equipped for drawn out tactical matches.

As for wimpy strategies, I don't believe there really are any. The only one that got under my skin and I found to be "wimpy" was weapon guarding but even that isn't as easy a skill to master as you might think. ENDER and Birdseye both did it quite a bit but at the same time, if you tried to guard their weapons, they were both very good at getting them back. Lasers can be surprisingly powerful in the right hands.

In the days of D1 and early D2, many people claimed that using Megas, Earthshakers, Smart mines, and homing missiles was also "wimpy" but even these take considerable skill to properly master. Megas and earthshakers are relatively easy to dodge. Smart mines are only really effective in certain areas and homing missiles tend to give away positions as they are so easy to see (and hear).

You don't need to be great at any particular aspect to master the game - but you do need to be great at overcoming your opponents gamestyle and strategies - to me, that is what separates the great pilots from the good ones.

deathbeam wrote: And is it any easier with a joytstick? I only have keyboard/mouse.

Joystick is often preferred for most pilots, particularly the Sidewinder 3D Pro. However, some of the best pilots used the most bizarre setups. The one that stands out the most was otaY using the Gravis Gamepad and his pinky fingers on the keyboard. Odd as hell and quite difficult to master but he was one of the top pilots without a doubt. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), but I think Birdseye uses a mouse/kb config? Use what works for you and feels comfortable. If you're just starting out, though, I'd recommend getting the Sidewinder and trying it out.

Good luck

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Mon May 10, 2010 12:11 pm

Be a unpredictable as possible in your movements.

deathbeam · Post by **deathbeam** » Mon May 10, 2010 1:43 pm

Yea, I guess nothing is really wimpy uneless it's something like typeKilling or cheating.

I must agree that unpredictability is one thing which is very advantageous.
It's also a good way to avoid mothing/fusion shots.

I like levels with a medium space to dogfight in, and lots of little tunnels and passages with big guns.
I'm a lot better at a balance between tactical and dogfighting, not particularly good at a level that leans to much either way.
Keg party is an excellent example.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Mon May 10, 2010 5:39 pm

deathbeam wrote:Yea, I guess nothing is really wimpy uneless it's something like cheating.

Fixed it for you.

Type when you're dead, or type fast enough that nobody finds you.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Mon May 10, 2010 5:49 pm

I don't go along with type-killing in anarchy. In CTF or Entropy it's a different story, and it just makes sense to eliminate a threat whether they have a keyboard/bullseye up or not, but in anarchy it just doesn't make any sense to go out of my way to take down someone who isn't even engaging. That's unsporting, if you ask me.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon May 10, 2010 7:15 pm

Guess you never came across someone putting up a keyboard in the middle of a dogfight who then starts whining a fit after you kill him ?

Since I shoot 1st and ask questions later in anarchy I usually hit a typer once. Mostly I'll leave them alone after that but may decide not to -- I've been shot in the back way too often by them

If I'm typing while not dead I'm fully aware that it may cost me this ship, part of the game.

Sickone · Post by **Sickone** » Mon May 10, 2010 7:23 pm

I certainly try not to \"type kill\"... but sometimes
you simply react, and boom he is dead.

Since the thread is on tactics, I will share my favorite.
I run screaming for my mommy... it generally works out badly

Seriously, after being gone for 7 years and coming back. The best thing I can do, though not really a tactic, it get in the mines and 'take the beating'.
Some are so much better than me it is just sick. I find myself saying things like \"which way did he go\" (in a dumb and confused voice). Sometimes, ever so rarely, I make the right move, throw the right shot, and get over on some one much better than me... then there is hope

deathbeam · Post by **deathbeam** » Mon May 10, 2010 7:59 pm

Aye, I guess that typekilling although maybe not the nicest, at times is unavoidable or even the right move.
I have a brother that I do 1v1's with all the time, and every time I fire a mega/cyclone/homing/big gun, he starts a message before it gets to him.
-> Insert annoyed typeKilling here <-

While I don't usually typekill, I expect people to shoot me if I'm not fast or hiding, so why let others typekill me and not typekill back?

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Mon May 10, 2010 8:31 pm

I just came up with a new tactic...

Throw up a keyboard when you know someone will be along shortly, and have your hand on the 'escape' key in case they decide to attack. If they attack, get out of typing mode quickly: if executed correctly you should have minimal shield loss while having gained the moral high-ground! ...Like David said to the philistines, \"the battle is the Lord's\".

d0ggY · Post by **d0ggY** » Mon May 10, 2010 8:56 pm

The only time type-killing is cheap is if you call time out or ask the other player a question that requires a response and then kill them when you know they are responding.

If a player chooses to sit and chat during a game or to type, especially in a 1on1 match, they are taking their own risk. Many players, including myself, actually used macros as part of our strategy at times and, as such and consequently, expect that if we were typing, we open ourselves up to an easy attack and it's our own fault.

Cheating is in another category by itself.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Tue May 11, 2010 12:18 am

I don't try to type-kill people, but I don't try not to either. I don't necessarily have time to tell, so...

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Tue May 11, 2010 8:34 am

I have a blank \"typing1(notype).ogf\"

NO keyboard, NO bulls-eye, Nothing, Just like D1 and D2... No0Obz

Same guys that cry about typekilling have bright colored ship skins and use Full HUD's

btw just drop that file in your ..\\Descent3\\custom\\graphics folder with all of the rest of ship logo graphics

\"Prepare for Descent- Type when your dead\"

Mickey1 · Post by **Mickey1** » Tue May 11, 2010 10:35 am

Die then type or type then die. It's Anarchy Baby!

.eK.Warlord · Post by **.eK.Warlord** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:21 am

Doggy nailed it.As far as whimpy strats go..i dont think there are any.When i strap into my pyro...all is game.Im their to kill you.To destroy you.To make you wonder why you even stepped into the mine with me.Ill camp you,ill rat you,If that dont work ill dog you.Ill guard your weapons,ill mine your weapons.Ill pray and HOPE i catch you on a repop.I have macros solely intended to make you look the other way.I hope i catch you typing..makes me giddy.Ill hunt you down and kill you.If not ill lay in wait for you.Your mother may get talked about.Ill do whatever it takes to throw you off your game so i can take full advantage.My sole intention when i go into the mine with you is to KILL you many many more times than you kill me.I sit on Kali now...over a decade later,just waiting to lay on you what ive learned.Unless you like going into the mines and fighting for your life at every turn.Best to avoid me.If i sound like a braggard to you.Let me quote my man Kid Rock.{IT AINT BRAGGIN MOTHERphUCKER IF YOU BACK IT UP}
Cya in the mines
Warlord

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:47 am

Warlord, where do you draw the line at what you do to distract the other guy? Would killing your family to distract you and get you off your game be considered fair game?

There should be some type of mutual respect in games. But that's just me.

edit: But if someone starts to throw KB picss everytime they get into a fight then i saw fair game. But if someone is typing in a place and you happen to come along, I find it cheap to kill him.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon May 17, 2010 11:15 am

Back when I was playing, when I found someone typing I would just *accidentally* drop a mortar somewhere in their vicinity on my way out.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Mon May 17, 2010 11:23 am

Personally, I avoid type-killing when I can (unless it's CTF or it's clear that the pilot is using it to avoid death). Of course, it happens sometimes.

However, with that said, I never expect anyone else to do the same. If I throw a keyboard up while flying (not that I do it often), I don't get mad if someone kills me. After all, I made the decision to sit still.

flip · Post by **flip** » Mon May 17, 2010 11:32 am

In a 1v1 I'm all for type-killing and repops. In an anarchy I'll pass on because it's all in good and it gives everybody time to cut up some and have fun. I WILL NOT play the game in a different way than I would play say badmitton. I feel like what you wont do face to face the internet shouldn't give you more boldness than you have in real life. If I was playing badmitton with someone, I wouldn't jump up and spike them in the face or the back when they weren't looking or make derogatory statements about their mother unless they started it. Then it's on

. In a 1v1 though, if you stop to type I'm gonna kill you, if your dumb enough to answer me when I type to you, I'm gonna kill you. The only thing I find dishonorable is if you intentionally mess with your game or your connection. It shows a sign of weakness and fear towards the others skills when you resort to that. Like I said before, I like it like NASCAR.

.eK.Warlord · Post by **.eK.Warlord** » Mon May 17, 2010 11:43 am

CDN_Merlin wrote:Warlord, where do you draw the line at what you do to distract the other guy? Would killing your family to distract you and get you off your game be considered fair game?

There should be some type of mutual respect in games. But that's just me.

edit: But if someone starts to throw KB picss everytime they get into a fight then i saw fair game. But if someone is typing in a place and you happen to come along, I find it cheap to kill him.

Let me make this REAL clear for you.If i find you typing i WILL kill the hell out of you..Ill shoot you continuously while your dieing so your blue ball will bounce when you explode.I find that makes ALOT of players mad.and throws them off their game.Type when your dead OR pay the price.Now with that said.I would not type a question to you,then run and kill you while your resonding.I take my Descent seriously.Ive invested YEARS of my life to it.Out here we can all be friends and such.but once you enter the mine with me...you are my sworn enemy.Ill find your weak spot and ill exploit it.If your dogging is weak..ill be in your face.If you fall for the camping consider it repeated.Step up.
Warlord

Djcjr1 · Post by **Djcjr1** » Mon May 17, 2010 12:37 pm

While I usually didn't play by the same rules as Warlord, I agree with them. The only exception I can think of is if a player requested a timeout. If you agreed to halt the game, then kill someone, knowing full well that they're afk and/or their attention is needed elsewhere, I would consider that very foul play.

flip · Post by **flip** » Mon May 17, 2010 2:27 pm

DJ YOU slacker you don't play at all. GET ON KALI MAN D1 tonight

.eK.Warlord · Post by **.eK.Warlord** » Mon May 17, 2010 4:20 pm

I agree Dj,to kill someone while IN a timeout,would be foul play..Goes without saying.But if i run up on you WHILE your typing for your timeout,no timeout has been called..and ill kill the hell out ya.Just make DAMN sure im not around before you start typing

Some players while playing me type all the time.They are quick typers and chose their places TO type wisely.But typing is oldskool anyway.We all use ventrilo now days.I may use a macro now and again.The ability to talk in game opens a whole new world of descent.Now we taunt verbally

.
Warlord

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Mon May 17, 2010 5:01 pm

flip wrote:I WILL NOT play the game in a different way than I would play say badmitton. I feel like what you wont do face to face the internet shouldn't give you more boldness than you have in real life.

If we were playing some sport, say, basketball, and you were busy talking instead of playing, I'd take advantage of that. If you're not playing, call timeout or deal with the disadvantage you put yourself at.

The same is true in Descent. If it's a 1v1 and a legitimate problem comes up, call timeout (or take a break before you respawn). If it's anarchy or something else, you're at a disadvantage. Too bad, so sad, press spacebar to respawn and get involved again.

-----

Djcjr, do you also post on Hacker News? I've seen someone going by djcjr over there a couple times.

flip · Post by **flip** » Mon May 17, 2010 5:36 pm

In a 1v1 I'm all for type-killing and repops.

I said I have no problems with type killing or spawn kills, guarding or any other skill involved in an 1v1. I thought I was clear that I was talking about the smack talk. In real life if somebody started becoming offensive like I've encountered online you can believe it would be put to a quick stop. Otherwise I'm as totally cutthroat as Warlord is. In real life I wouldn't start calling your wife a whore or talking about your momma to get you off your game and nor will I do that in the game.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Mon May 17, 2010 6:03 pm

Play the game however you want, that’s why it’s called “Anarchy”. (no rules)

Play the game like a gentleman, or play like a dick…up to you.

But remember…however you decide to play…somebody will find something to whine about.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon May 17, 2010 6:28 pm

In anarchy there are no rules, but while playing the game you should at least preserve some common respect and be polite if you type at all.

I'll say this though, people that have tried rotten insults to throw off someone's game when I have been in the map have usually found themselves being the center of attention in a bad way. They often ended up having all players and both teams (in team games) in the entire server cooperating just to single them out.

Sickone · Post by **Sickone** » Mon May 17, 2010 6:40 pm

Krom... what are you talking about?
Everytime someone is a complete dick
we always treat them great

Djcjr1 · Post by **Djcjr1** » Mon May 17, 2010 7:02 pm

flip wrote:DJ YOU slacker you don't play at all. GET ON KALI MAN D1 tonight

I know it, bud. IIRC, it's been about 2 years since I've played. I plan on getting back into Descent within a month. Once I get a few things first - converter for the 3dpro, a different IP (this one is terrible for gaming), and find all my Descent cds - I'll be ready for some more playing.

You'll see me around soon.

deathbeam · Post by **deathbeam** » Mon May 17, 2010 7:05 pm

I generally follow these steps:

1. if you see a pyro, shoot it until it's nothing but shrapnel flying across the room.

2. Grab gunz

3. Rinse and repeat.

If you have a big keyboard up when I shoot you, it's your problem.

I probably kill em' anyway more often than I let it go, but thats anarchy.
I LOVE anarchy.
Hyperanarchy is okay and maybe even sometimes team anarchy, but nothing is quite the same as just straight up anarchy.

Laying in wait is usually ineffective except in 1v1's, because while you're hiding they are racking up the kills.

When playing, I usually don't follow the \"golden rule\".
I just shoot you no matter how you treat me.
Personally, I don't believe that you can really affect somebody just with insults.

When you're playing descent you can yell, scream, and smash the keyboard, but the only way to change the situation is to shoot.

And when I need a break I usually just wait for my next death, and then hide in spawnlimbo.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Mon May 17, 2010 7:17 pm

The only time I ever got angry because of somebody using bad language, was in a game where I knew little children were playing.

And after I kicked the guy out, he never forgave me. (was on Kali)

flip · Post by **flip** » Mon May 17, 2010 7:52 pm

Yeah I guess it's a personal problem of mine. There's one side of me that wants to and could be real good at it, but then I have to be restrained and I guess that's what bothers me about it. Not that the other guy is doing but that I can't fight back in the same way. I guess I better get real good at Descent

Djcjr1 · Post by **Djcjr1** » Mon May 17, 2010 8:12 pm

Lothar wrote:Djcjr, do you also post on Hacker News? I've seen someone going by djcjr over there a couple times.

Hey Lothar!

As odd and beautifully unique as my alias may be, no, that's not me.

Descent Piloting tactics and techniques

Descent Piloting tactics and techniques

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